And as I expected I have a comment in favor of spanking (and I'm sure it won't be the only one but right now, it is the only one) which I find quite interesting and wonder if the comment-leaver stopped to consider the post I wrote. Here is the comment:
I believe that every child is different and as parents we need to parent in a way that is effective to that child. I was spanked as a child, for good reason, and I never doubted my parents love for me. There is an appropriate way to spank and an inappropriate. Even spanking can be done in love.
I do believe that God punishes us physically at times. Ask anyone whose wrong decisions has left them with diseases. He is loving all the time but in His love He allows consequences.
The issue is not spanking. As Christians we are all on the same team. If you are disciplining as God has called you to for each child them you will know what to do. The important thing is that you love your child enough to discipline. Satan loves to take topics like this to divide us.
I do believe that God punishes us physically at times. Ask anyone whose wrong decisions has left them with diseases. He is loving all the time but in His love He allows consequences.
The issue is not spanking. As Christians we are all on the same team. If you are disciplining as God has called you to for each child them you will know what to do. The important thing is that you love your child enough to discipline. Satan loves to take topics like this to divide us.
So let's explore this, shall we? I'm in that kind of mood today (and if you are a new reader, please don't run away....I promise I'm not always this feisty).
Yes, every child is different and we need to be creative in how we parent. Agreed. So what if spanking doesn't work for one child? The other child is the "lucky" one who gets hit when he/she disobeys??? What message is THAT sending? I challenge you to read a blog post a friend of mine put up yesterday from an anonymous reader that we can address to this very idea:
I would love to hear explanations of appropriate and inappropriate ways to hit a child. Is it appropriate if you don't leave bruises? Is it appropriate if you don't do it with your hand (because afterall, we don't want to teach them to hit others with their hands...that would be horrible! Teach them to use an object to hit someone to get them to do what they want. Yes, that makes perfect sense.)? Is it appropriate if you wait until you aren't upset to do it later when the child has most likely forgotten what the issue was that they are now getting hit for? Oh please do explain.
Spanking in love? So when an adult hits another adult (or to an animal) it's ok if he/she first says, "Ok, now I'm doing this because I love you." I'm sure if more people tried to use that reasoning in the court system more judges would let the offenders go. Afterall, they were just loving their partner into obedience. IF IT'S NOT OK TO DO TO AN ADULT OR ANIMAL, WHY IS IT OK TO DO TO A CHILD?????
Now, this bit about God afflicting people with disease for their disobedience. *Sigh* Really? REALLY??? I guess that kind of logic would look something like this:
Jimmy knows what God is asking him to do but refuses to obey.
One day God has had enough and says to Himself, "You know, I'm tired of Jimmy not following what I'm asking him to do. I think I'll afflict him with..hmm...strep throat? Noooo. How about a broken leg? Hmm..still not what I'm looking for in an effective punishment. OOOoo...how about cancer!!! Yes!! That will teach Jimmy to listen to Me and obey!!!!"
"Jimmy, my son, I need to talk to you. You haven't done what I have asked you to do. Because of your disobedience I have to disipline you. I love you son. So very much! Come here Jimmy, come sit on my lap. Ok, now the consequence for not obeying Me is going to be cancer. I do this because I love you and want you to obey."
That my friend is NOT the God I call my Father.
I really have a hard time (can you tell?) with this sort of reasoning in this comment. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Well, other than it makes the person who is doing the spanking feel better about what they are doing since they can bring God in on their side.
No, I am NOT on the same team when it comes to this topic, and yes, the issue IS spanking. Um, that's what my post was about. ;) I love my children enough that I will not hit them into obedience and justify it with Scripture or as having God on MY side.
*And a quick note: I don't post anonymous comments. I also reserve the right to moderate comments left that aren't anonymous. Which means, if you are going to leave me a comment, whether anonymous or not, saying a post I made is absurd, your comment isn't going to be published. :)
9 comments:
there's a big difference between allowing natural consequences and imposing unrelated punishment - if someone gets an STD or lung cancer or whatever because if their health/behaviour choices that's very different to being "physically punished". And sometimes Good chooses to protect us from the possible consequences for our behaviour.
If you're looking for a comparable parenting example then how about this one: a natural consequence for jumping in a puddle without boots, is getting wet feet. As parents we can choose to allow that natural consequence or protect our children from it by preventing them from carrying out the behaviour that would result in that consequence (either using our words or by picking them up so they can't get to the puddle).
Excellent post! :) Honestly, I find the whole right-way-to-spank argument a ridiculous and creepy cop out, and I suspect that most people who use it are parroting what they have heard from the religious spanking gurus without truly thinking it through. It is not Scriptural at all.
http://dulcefamily.blogspot.com/2011/06/spanking-in-anger-what-does-it-matter.html
I agree that the real issue goes beyond spanking into the character of God, though. If we are trying to remake Him into our image as petty and cruel, then spanking fits. It really is not consistent with the Bible, though, even the Old Testament. The overall theme of the Bible shows a God who is longing to restore relationship. It shows Jesus paying the price for our sins Himself, not us earning redemption through our own suffering. To claim that we must be punished by God is to invalidate the Cross.
Wow, I seem to have hit a cord. My intention is not to try to persuade anyone. I respect the convictions God has given you in this area. I guess our disconnect is on consequences and punishments. I whole heartedly agree with natural consequences and I train, teach, and correct my children all the live long day. I see consequences as a form of punishment meant to teach. God is so smart though and gives us the kids we are supposed to parent. So I am sure you are the best mom for your kids and I am for my babies as well. I wish you the best.
No, you didn't hit a cord. You just brought up some, in my opinion, very invalid points of argument. Especially when dragging the whole "doing it out of love in the name of God" argument into the mix. I won't sit by and let those kinds of comments to my blog go unnoticed. ;)
I love this! The topic is fresh in my mind because I recently read Elizabeth Pantley's "No-Cry Discipline Solution". It's really good! Anyways, I'm glad you wrote this post because pretty much everyone I know is pro-spanking, and it will be nice to intelligently discuss my choice not to spank. :-P
AMEN, Sister!!!
I never understood the "well, God physically punishes us" staement either...as if He really does that??!! The same people whom claim that should be terrified of MILLSTONES!!!!
@Courtney -- btw, I train, teach, and correct MY DOG! However, I love, hold, respect and gently redirect my children...
wow awesome post! I had a pro-spanking comment on a post of mine a few months ago and responded the same way. The annoymous blogger said that she was "not against spanking, just against beating" She said she would have turned in someone like my parents for the way they spanked, but 4 or 5 swats was okay. That logic just makes no sense! Thanks for writing this! You can read that comment here if you want to: http://enigmamyjourneyofselfdiscovery.blogspot.com/2011/06/childhood-memories.html
Oh DEAR. I am in agreement with you, Heather. I don't like that comment one bit either.
Troubles in life isn't punishment from God. It refines and strengthens your character, but it is not the same as spanking the child! Spanking a child for obedience or subjective ideas of what he/she did wrong can slip over a wrong side of the line far too quickly. However, learning from life and mistakes without someone looming over you with a raised hand is far more educational and quickly eye-opening.
To me, that is the equivalent of telling me that because I was such a bad little 1 yr old, God took away my mother and my hearing. Oh no. Someone took away my mother and my hearing, God took my mother in, and gave me strength to survive.
I know, it's an extreme example. But that is definitely what popped into mind and I'll have to ruminate on that more later.
I just don't understand sometimes.
Hitting hurts. It is borne out of frustration, emotion, and a need for aggression in order to subjectively "correct". If it is done coldly, it is borne out of a desire to control. It violates another human being and devalues them instantly. Hurting someone takes away their trust, even if you believe you are doing the right thing. Hitting should be for defense, not offense, especially not on a child. What did he/she do to hurt *you* specifically?
And Jesus always preached turning the other cheek, he taught in parables and lessons of life directly from God. He never hit. He turned over tables in anger (with adults), yes. He was sharp with his tongue, yes.
Ahh. Well, I'm glad to see such thorough and thoughtful ripping apart of the myths that arose in that comment. Thank you, Heather!
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